https://tanguera.com.tr/
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Sunday, October 30, 2022
Saturday, October 29, 2022
Thursday, October 27, 2022
Tango Event Economics
Not my post...a someone else's reply to a thread in the Tango DJ group on Facebook...
"Maybe this is a question actually asked to organizers and dancers, as well, and not just DJs 🙂
Francesco, I read from your comments that one of your thoughts comes from looking at "the festivals" that "make so much money", and you feel that DJs don't participate in all that wealth generated.
I know a bit about the economics of the events we organized. Marathons with 200-230 participants in Germany.
Money that comes in is usually only the sales of the ticket, and if you are "lucky" and can operate the bar, there is some extra there, as well. Often the venue dictates the catering and runs the bar, and sometimes they even want to charge you for their people on top.
Ultimately, the largest fraction of the money that comes in (sales) goes to:
- taxes (19%)
- food (catering, or if you cook yourself - ingredients plus helpers and kitchen rent)
- venue (rent, energy, GEMA, fire watch, official registration with the municipality, insurance, cleaning, ...)
- DJs (time, travel, accommodation)
- Decoration, Marketing, small stuff.
- Helpers (either paid, or just free entrance, which also means you pay for their food, and maybe even accommodation)
Of these costs, some are fixed (you pay them, no matter how many people actually show up) or variable costs (you pay per participant).
Event prices are, as you describe, almost fixed on a similar level, no matter where you are in Europe. But costs are different, and size of the events are, too.
The same event (in terms of what is offered) in Germany might be essentially no-profit, can be quite profitable in Poland or Greece, and impossible to do at that price point in the UK or in Paris.
Now, if events in "cheaper" countries would be cheaper, this might be different, but they are often not.
Essentially there is also economy of scale at play. Economy of scale plays a role, when your fixed costs become smaller as a fraction of the overall costs, especially because you have more participants. So the chances that a marathon with 200 people is more profitable than one with 150 are high, and a festival with 1000 people is a completely different ballpark.
A long time ago the venue that hosted the oldest Milonga in Munich had three events every week: Salsa, Swing and Tango. Salsa was a free entrance event. Swing was 5€ with 3€ coupon for drinks, and Tango was 10€. I doubt they made money with Tango.
Why the differences? Because there are more Salsa dancers, and they need less space, and they party harder and consume alcohol. Much more than the Swing dancers, and much much more than the frigid tangueros who dare even touch alcohol, and need so much more space.
Are salsa DJs paid better? I would assume so.
Better DJ pay you have in Techno discos and festivals with thousands of dancers - but the star DJs also bring their fans, and those people consume more... etc.
You see a similar thing with large festivals: they need to bring in the big names to fill the ranks of customers. Don't ask what Chicho or Arce ask for... you'll just get grumpy mood.
So, if one wants to talk about tango economics, you can't talk only one small aspect of it.
Just some numbers for comparison (and these are from my memory, pre-pandemic)
Fixed:
- venue can be between 300 and 1500 a day
- one hour of music costs 100€ (all costs included: DJ fee, travel, accommodation, sound system rent, GEMA).
Variable:
- food is between 50 and 70 € per person if catered (2 brunch, 2 dinner, snacks, no drinks) - don't forget that people who don't pay entrance (helpers, DJs, team) also eat as do paying guests.
Essentially, the marathon fee itself must pay the variable and the fixed costs. And since, with food, the variable costs are quite high, and space and requirements for role balance limits the amount of people you can have (good leaders are rare and picky and register late), there is not much room to wiggle much profit out.
I have been joking often enough to say the only people who make money on marathons are the landlords and the caterer.
Sorry for the long answer. Some of this is also part of the https://wiki.tangoresearch.net/index.php?title=Marathon_Organizer_Handbook - and I invite anyone to add to it, e.g. more details about DJ booking, and how to treat your star DJs or teachers. :)"
Sent from my iPad
"Maybe this is a question actually asked to organizers and dancers, as well, and not just DJs 🙂
Francesco, I read from your comments that one of your thoughts comes from looking at "the festivals" that "make so much money", and you feel that DJs don't participate in all that wealth generated.
I know a bit about the economics of the events we organized. Marathons with 200-230 participants in Germany.
Money that comes in is usually only the sales of the ticket, and if you are "lucky" and can operate the bar, there is some extra there, as well. Often the venue dictates the catering and runs the bar, and sometimes they even want to charge you for their people on top.
Ultimately, the largest fraction of the money that comes in (sales) goes to:
- taxes (19%)
- food (catering, or if you cook yourself - ingredients plus helpers and kitchen rent)
- venue (rent, energy, GEMA, fire watch, official registration with the municipality, insurance, cleaning, ...)
- DJs (time, travel, accommodation)
- Decoration, Marketing, small stuff.
- Helpers (either paid, or just free entrance, which also means you pay for their food, and maybe even accommodation)
Of these costs, some are fixed (you pay them, no matter how many people actually show up) or variable costs (you pay per participant).
Event prices are, as you describe, almost fixed on a similar level, no matter where you are in Europe. But costs are different, and size of the events are, too.
The same event (in terms of what is offered) in Germany might be essentially no-profit, can be quite profitable in Poland or Greece, and impossible to do at that price point in the UK or in Paris.
Now, if events in "cheaper" countries would be cheaper, this might be different, but they are often not.
Essentially there is also economy of scale at play. Economy of scale plays a role, when your fixed costs become smaller as a fraction of the overall costs, especially because you have more participants. So the chances that a marathon with 200 people is more profitable than one with 150 are high, and a festival with 1000 people is a completely different ballpark.
A long time ago the venue that hosted the oldest Milonga in Munich had three events every week: Salsa, Swing and Tango. Salsa was a free entrance event. Swing was 5€ with 3€ coupon for drinks, and Tango was 10€. I doubt they made money with Tango.
Why the differences? Because there are more Salsa dancers, and they need less space, and they party harder and consume alcohol. Much more than the Swing dancers, and much much more than the frigid tangueros who dare even touch alcohol, and need so much more space.
Are salsa DJs paid better? I would assume so.
Better DJ pay you have in Techno discos and festivals with thousands of dancers - but the star DJs also bring their fans, and those people consume more... etc.
You see a similar thing with large festivals: they need to bring in the big names to fill the ranks of customers. Don't ask what Chicho or Arce ask for... you'll just get grumpy mood.
So, if one wants to talk about tango economics, you can't talk only one small aspect of it.
Just some numbers for comparison (and these are from my memory, pre-pandemic)
Fixed:
- venue can be between 300 and 1500 a day
- one hour of music costs 100€ (all costs included: DJ fee, travel, accommodation, sound system rent, GEMA).
Variable:
- food is between 50 and 70 € per person if catered (2 brunch, 2 dinner, snacks, no drinks) - don't forget that people who don't pay entrance (helpers, DJs, team) also eat as do paying guests.
Essentially, the marathon fee itself must pay the variable and the fixed costs. And since, with food, the variable costs are quite high, and space and requirements for role balance limits the amount of people you can have (good leaders are rare and picky and register late), there is not much room to wiggle much profit out.
I have been joking often enough to say the only people who make money on marathons are the landlords and the caterer.
Sorry for the long answer. Some of this is also part of the https://wiki.tangoresearch.net/index.php?title=Marathon_Organizer_Handbook - and I invite anyone to add to it, e.g. more details about DJ booking, and how to treat your star DJs or teachers. :)"
Sent from my iPad
Sunday, October 23, 2022
Photo by Gaz Blanco
Alex Tango.Fuego shared a photo with you from the Flickr app! Check it out:
https://flic.kr/p/2nGTYGZ
Sent from my iPad
https://flic.kr/p/2nGTYGZ
Sent from my iPad
Sunday, October 16, 2022
Saturday, October 15, 2022
MAKING IN/ PLACE Online Seminar// 2020 // Joseph Walsh Studio
https://vimeo.com/458557534
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Sent from my iPad
__
For the best experience, get the Vimeo app:
Android - https://bit.ly/vimeo_android
iOS - https://bit.ly/vimeo_ios
Sent from my iPad
Wednesday, October 12, 2022
Tuesday, October 11, 2022
Monday, October 10, 2022
Saturday, October 8, 2022
Wednesday, October 5, 2022
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